propitiatory sacrifice.
this is how christ's death is described three times in the scriptures.. the apostle john wrote, "the love is in this respect, not that we have loved god, but that he loved us and sent forth his son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.
" (1 john 4:10).
@ PROLOGOS
Again, the wording Jesus used can be compared with what he told the thief. The thief will not be personally, alongside Jesus - and does not have to be.
The Scriptures make it perfectly clear, both in Genesis ch. 3 and Romans ch. 5 that as a result of Adam & Eve's sinning, all men die.
Physically eating of a particular fruit would not bestow everlasting life on anyone, therefore the symbolism and illustrations being used, have to be understood as just that - symbols.
propitiatory sacrifice.
this is how christ's death is described three times in the scriptures.. the apostle john wrote, "the love is in this respect, not that we have loved god, but that he loved us and sent forth his son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.
" (1 john 4:10).
@UCANTNOME
Good Scripture - 1 Corinthians 15:48-49) "As the one made of dust [is], so those made of dust [are] also; and as the heavenly one [is], so those who are heavenly [are] also. And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one."
This illustrates what I was trying to point out; we were made in God's likeness as humans in the beginning, but Satan & Adam corrupted that. Now we can attain that spiritual likeness once more through His son's ransom, thereby reflecting qualities of a heavenly origin rather than the earthly attitudes of Satan's world.
Again, the Scripture is not saying we ha\ve to travel to heaven to reflect God's qualities.
no, i'm not misquoting peter talking to jesus again, or relating a conversation i had with a jw.. i'm asking something a little different.. i began my fade in jan this year and completed it at the memorial on 26th march.
since learning ttatt and becoming mentally free, my depression has improved, i see colours better, and my anxiety issues have dissolved.
i returned to teaching high school after years away from it, and am a substitute teacher at some local schools.
Julia, you have a PM.
no, i'm not misquoting peter talking to jesus again, or relating a conversation i had with a jw.. i'm asking something a little different.. i began my fade in jan this year and completed it at the memorial on 26th march.
since learning ttatt and becoming mentally free, my depression has improved, i see colours better, and my anxiety issues have dissolved.
i returned to teaching high school after years away from it, and am a substitute teacher at some local schools.
Hi Julia, my heart goes out to you because of your anxieties. I am still in - but I am managing to do so because I have changed the terms & conditions to suit me, not the Org.
The elders don't like it one bit - but tough, they now appreciate that I will not be pushed around by them, and that if they try, they will be given Scriptural answers which cannot be contradicted by literature counsel!
Maybe one day I'll fade, but until then, I will continue to very carefully plant seeds of truth in various 'discreet' ways!! (see what I did there?)
Believing differently doesn't demand that I have to commit 'social suicide'. I love people whose lifestyle is based on Bible principles, but I'm not going to abandon them because they are conned into believing certain falsehoods. That's something which they'll have to waken up to, and if I can help a little, I will do my best!
propitiatory sacrifice.
this is how christ's death is described three times in the scriptures.. the apostle john wrote, "the love is in this respect, not that we have loved god, but that he loved us and sent forth his son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.
" (1 john 4:10).
PROPITIATORY SACRIFICE
This is how Christ's death is described three times in the Scriptures.
The apostle John wrote, "The love is in this respect, not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent forth his Son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins." (1 John 4:10)
Propitiate means to "appease or conciliate". Christ's blood reconciles sinners back to our Creator.
Hence the reason for Jesus stating that he came to give his life as a 'ransom'. (Matthew 20:28)
In the book "Draw Close to Jehovah" chapter 14, page 141, paragraph 8, it provides a concise but detailed explanation as to how Jesus sacrifice acted as a 'ransom';"Significantly, the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament observes that this word (ko´pher) "always denotes an equivalent," or a correspondency. Thus, the cover of the ark of the covenant had a shape corresponding to the ark itself. Likewise, in order to ransom, or cover, sin, a price must be paid that fully corresponds to, or fully covers, the damage caused by the sin. God’s Law to Israel thus stated: "Soul will be for soul, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot."" - Deuteronomy 19:21.
Note the descriptive terminology used - 'equivalent','correspondency',fullycovers', as well as the Scripture - to establish beyond any doubt that Christ's death balanced the divine scales of justice and bought back exactly what was lost. However, therein lies the death blow to the dominant teaching of most (if not all) religions claiming to be Christian - that some humans will ascend to heaven.
If "going to heaven when you die" was true, then the 'divine scales of justice' are blatantly out of balance.
If Adam had not sinned, what would be the outcome for every single human being on the earth? Everlasting life on a paradise earth - end of story - because that's exactly what Jehovah intended!
Therefore when Jesus died, his lifeblood paid for that to be restored - nothing more, nothing less.
Neither Adam nor any of his descendants were ever promised life in heaven, and because of the 'eye for eye, tooth for tooth' principle, Jesus' death would not, and could not change that God-given edict.
By this point, certain scriptures with their 'given' understandings may spring to mind, seemingly proving that heaven does beckon certain individuals.
An honest examination of the context of these verses, the original Greek meanings, and a comparison with other Scriptures, should at the very least call into question what is asserted as Bible truth.
Firstly, take note of the wordings of these different verses.
At Luke 22:43, Jesus told the dying thief, "Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise." He would be with Jesus, but in what sense/location?
At Revelation 7:14,15, the angel describes those on earth who survive the great tribulation as being "before the throne of God and rendering sacred service day and night in His temple." (divine habitation) In what context will this take place?
Clearly, the understanding of these two verses require a proper reasoning based on the Bible.
Likewise, the Bible verses routinely used to justify the "heavenlyhope" require close inspection as to whether there could be a different explanation.
Revelation 20:6 (NWT) speaks of certain resurrected ones who will "rule as kings" with Christ, but no other translation viewed inserts "as kings" into the verse. It is notable that only Jesus Christ himself is compared to Melchizedek as being a king/priest - not with a 144,000 others! (Hebrews 7:17)
The original Greek ( basileu ) means,
1) to be king, to exercise kingly power, to reign
a) of the governor of a province
b) of the rule of the Messiah
c) of the reign of Christians in the millennium
2) metaph. to exercise the highest influence, to control
In what sense, and crucially, in what location will such ones 'reign'?
Could these be the same princes prophesied about at Psalm 45:16 and the "chieftain class" discussed at length in the Watchtower March 1st 1999 p. 16 par. 14?
Nowhere, but nowhere is there a single mention of any humans going to heaven. Being priests - yes! 'Reigning' - yes! Even "sitting at Jesus' left and right hand"! Assuming something does not make it a reality, regardless of how much you want it to be so. These positions neither necessitate nor indicate anyone being transferred to heaven to be given a super - human existence, thereby exceeding what was lost in Eden! Those ones spoken of at Revelation 20:6 who are to 'reign' for 1000 years will also be priests.
This is how Vine's Expository Dictionary explains this assignation: "Meanwhile all believers, from Jews and Gentiles, are constituted "a kingdom of priests," Rev 1:6 "a holy priesthood," 1Pe 2:5, and "royal," 1Pe 2:9. The NT knows nothing of a sacerdotal class in contrast to the laity; all believers are commanded to offer the sacrifices mentioned in Rom 12:1; Phl 2:17; 4:18; Hbr 13:15, 16; 1Pe 2:5." All
faithful Christians are priests and offer their personal sacrifices, and since they and others who spoke about God are promised the first resurrection, (Rev. 20:4,6) it could be reasoned that all such proven servants will be on hand and ready to receive others who subsequently receive a resurrection.Admittedly, speculative - but not dogmatic or dictatorial!
do not have access to the watchtower library, so i decided to research directly from the society's website.
noticed that volumes are only good dating back to the year 2000. with all that has ever been written, why provide only from 2000 onward?
sure, there are references made to items published before then, but they are not accessible.
The simple truth of the matter (IMHO) is that the current "truths" are all that matter, and older redundant teachings will only cause people to question the authority Direct Channel of Communication.
Having said that, this statement from the January 1st 2007 Watchtower, is one which I'm sure the Org deeply regrets publishing. It basically infers that the Governing Body is participating in spiritism, which makes them detestable in God's eyes. (Deuteronomy 18:10-12)
w07 1/1 p. 28 par. 11 “The First Resurrection”—Now Under Way
What, then, can we deduce from the fact that one of the 24 elders identifies the great crowd to John? It seems that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today. Why is that important? Because the correct identity of the great crowd was revealed to God’s anointed servants on earth in 1935. If one of the 24 elders was used to convey that important truth, he would have had to be resurrected to heaven by 1935 at the latest.
church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .
jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.
he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.
The most likely reason for the three elders sudden willingness to assist the police (having refused to do so for 3 years) is down to the puppet-masters in Mill Hill.
When the Bethel legal team got word of the Judge ordering the Brothers Grimm to testify, their "principled" spine collapsed at the thought of what would happen if they didn't allow the 3 Stooges to testify - they'd be jailed for contempt of court, triggering national as well as international headlines.
Therefore, let them sing to the court - damage limitation!
if so then what are they afraid of?.
i haven't been to a single solitary meeting, conventions or a$$emby since 2010 but i do recall they would announce a discouraging of recording the sessions..
Haven't you heard?
The Society (at our DC, anyway) has made a CD recording of all the talks at the DC and has issued ONE copy to each congregation.
she was a 12 year old maltese.
the best pet in the world.
my wife and i never had kids, so she was our only daughter.
I can feel your pain and anguish 100%, TOOKTHERED PILL.
My wife and I came home from Sunday's meeting to find our beloved pet had died. (no details, because we are still in and trying to gently rouse others)
The pain has convinced me that it is not wise to put ourselves through this again by getting a quick replacement - there are plenty of creatures in the wild to appreciate, without having them become like a close family member.
So no more personal pets for us.
i'm going to share with you all a reply i got from a witnesses after i sent an article from nbc news regarding the conti sex abuse case.
in many ways i think it's quite telling and revealing into the mind of a dubbie.
this is the actuall reply .
A very close relative (fellow Witness) has stopped speaking to me ever since I told them about the WTBTS & the OSCE and U.N.
I appreciate how painful it is to hear TTATT, but the truth is the truth, whether you like it or not!
Fingers in both ears and singing la-la-la-la is not going to change it!
